Annual, I find it very difficult to reason with people who do not factor the principles of adaption into the dieting equation.  If we had robot bodies then sure, eating less calories just might work.  But we don’t.  We have bodies that are designed to keep us alive.  I frequently get on Calorie Count and try to stir peoples’ thoughts about this.  They all take the caloric advice of whatever some mathematical model spits out to them, and I am amazed at who takes this type of advice.  A few days ago a woman who is a medical doctor was telling of her weight loss struggle, and has taken up smoking (!!!) to help curb her appetite.  Another woman has degrees in health and nutrition yet she was obese and just lost 100 pounds by dieting, and has 30 more to lose, and was struggling with eating sweets, donuts, and muffins over the holidays.  These are educated people.  But they take the advice of “Calorie Count” as if it is the gospel truth.  I explained the principles of adaption to both of them.  They probably don’t like me much for telling them in a round about way that their recent weight loss success is doomed, but I have to speak out, as I don’t like perpetuating the popular dieting lies.

Sometime, when your husband is in good humor, maybe ask him if he’s ever heard of the remedy for a body that’s retaining water.  The remedy is to drink up. While it sounds counter-intuitive, you will actually retain water if you are not drinking enough. Your body goes into a self-preservation mode and holds onto the water it is thinking it might not get more of. When you start drinking a sufficient amount it will relax and let it go.

One would think the opposite would be true, that the person should not drink anything at all until the body eliminates the retained water on its own.

Well, it works the same way for eating. Maybe if you can get him thinking about the water, it will be easier for him to understand how it is similar with food.

I guess for me, understanding these principles scared me right out of dieting.  There is NO WAY I want to be training my body to store up fat!

Sometimes you just can’t talk to people about certain subjects.  They believe what they believe and that’s IT!  End of discussion!  I guess the proof will be in the pudding, as they say.  A year or two from now.

I know someone else who took up smoking again in order to lose weight.  What’s up with that??  That’s insane!  That’s twisted!  Another friend has gained a bit of weight during menopause and we were discussing our issues over lunch the other day.  She said years ago she was going through a divorce and just couldn’t eat.  She became terribly, unhealthily thin, and people were complimenting her left and right.  She thought, are you out of your minds?  I look this way because I’m completely a mess!!!!  This is NOT GOOD! 

There’s a lot of messed up thinking out there.  Swan, I really admire your NT evangelism.  Very bold!

I finally bought new clothes today.  Had to get jeans from the women’s department, but they’re comfortable and look decent.  I’ve been living in sweatshirts and leggings for months now, and that needed to end.  The upside of the lecture is my husband felt bad about making me cry so he didn’t give me a hard time about spending money on new clothes.

Hi Annual, I was going to say get yourself some new clothes . Good decision.  Get dressed every day right down to your shoes and put on make-up. These things you do for YOURSELF so you will feel better while your body is doing its job. Be nice to yourself, you deserve it, and you deserve to be treated with respect no matter if you have gained weight or not. Be outrageous! Your DH just wants to see you “doing something” about the weight and you ARE doing something, it’s just not something that he can relate to. You need compassion, not criticism. Tell him what you need. Is he perfect?!

Jean mentioned that some people, in order to get off the f/f cycle, have to be very careful about their food choices and stick mostly to the fruits, vegetables, lean proteins, whole grains and like that. In the early stages with me, she advised to make lower fat choices (after a year of gaining) to “give your body the go-ahead to burn fat.” Maybe you have to take a look at that or already have? It worked for me to “flip the switch.”

I think you have good instincts, be kind to yourself in your thoughts as well as in the food choices.  This is a mental AND physical process and we’re all doing the best we know how.  I’m with you in spirit.

All my best,
Noel

I’m probably not there yet.  I’m still trying to work out “Are you eating what you want to eat” as Jean asked and the food lists.  My food desires have changed, though, so progress is being made.

What changes did you make in response to Jean’s suggestion about the fats?  (I realize this was 20 years ago!)

Thanks for your help.  You and FlyLady.  : )

Annual, OMG are you a Flybaby, too? I am flying since 2001. 20 years ago, let’s see LOL! I was in school and working, taking food with me, usually two cut up apples and oranges and at least two whole wheat bagels, one with peanut butter and one with cream cheese. After, I think I still brought one bagel with peanut butter and I also packed grilled chicken breast and some whole wheat crackers such as Akmak and Wasa. (My sister says they remind her of eating tree bark but I like them!) I always ate if I got hungry, even if in the middle of class I’d take out my bagel. Sometimes I had long days and would run out of food and then I’d get a Snickers from the vending but only if “emergency” and I didn’t let that happen too often. Also good granola bars and a nuts/raisins mixture in a little baggie. I carried a small back pack for books and food.  I always have food in my car for emergencies. Sometimes we are out and about and we stop and get a chicken or turkey wrap at the grocery instead of going in a restaurant. We’ve learned where we can get decent, real food. Sometimes we bring peanut butter sandwiches on good whole wheat bread, which I prefer to granola bars.

Okay, remember babysteps . It takes what it takes. Did you ever read “Body Clutter”? The concept was good but I think off track as to getting to a lean, adaptive weight and getting out of starvation mode. You had alot more against you, being overweight when you started, than I did. I was a strict dieter, they mostly always “worked” until they didn’t because I couldn’t take it any more.  Naturally Thin came to me like water to a person in the desert! Jean’s ideas were a godsend.

Noel

FlyLady was so helpful to me after I quit my job and became a stay-at-home mom.  I would stand in the middle of my house and wonder what I was supposed to be doing!  After two years, I’m starting to get a handle on it.  One nice thing about being at home is always having access to food and cooking equipment.  At least THAT part of NT is easy for me!

I high-five your sister.  I looked at those crackers you recommended and wondered if they might taste similar to the packaging.  : )  I have found a recipe for whole wheat oatmeal bread, and I always keep a loaf on the counter and a loaf in the freezer.  It’s yummy and healthy.  I used to like bagels, but not so much anymore.  (Memory!  Back when I was working I would get a salt bagel toasted with butter and a Diet Dr Pepper most every morning.  The bagel shop went out of business, which ended that routine.  What a yummy snack that was.  The clerks at the shop actually started calling me “The Salt Lady”)  So anyway, whole wheat bread in, bagels out.

I’ve ditched the bran muffins from the grocery store (they went out of business, too.  Is there a pattern here?) and found a recipe for cornbread that uses whole wheat pastry flour instead of white, and maple syrup instead of sugar.  There’s melted butter in there, too, so it should probably be considered a borderline food, but we’re moving in the right direction.

I think I make excuses about not eating the very best I can.  For instance, a piece of pizza with shrimp for lunch.  The shrimp has almost no fat, so I figure they balance each other out.  But maybe I could do better?  I see you succeeding with your tree bark crackers and Swan over there eating casseroles with cream cheese (boy, were those enchiladas rich!), and while I would LIKE my eating and thinness trajectory to be more like hers, I suspect it needs to be more like yours.  I eat lots of fruits and vegetables, nothing fried, plenty of whole grains and lots of chicken and beef (I need that iron).  A few months ago Jean noticed I used phrases like “a little bit” and she wondered if I was holding back.  I was talking specifically about butter and cheese, and you suggested I switch to full fat cheese to see if it was more satisfying, and it has been, but how can I cut my fats while eating full strength cheese and not holding back? 

I’m blabbing here.  Thanks for indulging me.  I so want some external evidence that progress is being made, although I can point to lots of things like how my food desires have changed and how I’m very in tune with my appetite…just nothing the casual observer would notice.  But nobody really cares that much what I look like, right?  (Other than Mr. Annual, but he has many other charms.)

And what a turkey he is.  He bought a box of Valentines candy yesterday (because it cost $1) and I ate all five pieces in less than 24 hours.  This is something else I’m learning:  what pleasure foods I’m powerless against.  Fancy chocolates, molasses cookies and rhubarb pie are all black holes for me.  I can provide other baked goods for my family and just not care about them, but those - fuggedaboutit.  They suck me right in.  But what a goofball to freak out about my weight one day and buy chocolates the next!

I’ll stop now.  Thanks everybody.

You are a funny lady! I say get yourself some really good chocolate that you like, hide it away, and have one guilt-free piece every night! If you eat it more often you may not get such a charge out of it. Same with good cheese. Also, I eat what I really LIKE and I like those crackers, so there! I don’t like cooking, nix the casseroles and give me a nice salmon filet, brown rice, and a big fresh vegetable salad any time. Or a panini grilled chicken breast with a baked potato, a little butter, and a salad. In recent years, even I have been known to eat multiple pieces of chocolate in a day so don’t get down on yourself. It happens. I’m at a different place with food than you, sometimes I still eat past “full”.

I go past full sometimes, too.  Sometimes because I waited a bit too long to eat, usually because I made something really delicious and I’ve so enjoyed eating it I can’t bear to throw any out!!

I may follow your advice on the chocolate…

Annual, I was just thinking about cheese. I use cheese as what Jean calls “a condiment,” that is, a little at a time and not every day.  I also was reminding myself to ask you if you notice your “full” signals. Maybe eat a little slower and enjoy the food. You can still eat how much your body wants, not always how much your MIND wants! The food will still be there and if you get hungry again, you can have more. I eat many times a day and feel best that way. If you are eating heavier foods, you may not want/need to eat that many times.

Do you recall Jean’s post that naturally thin doesn’t mean eating everything you want? And that thermodynamics still apply to us? We have to work with ourselves, pay attention, and neither over- nor under eat. When my DH is cooking a yummy stew, I eat slowly and wait a little before I have seconds.

I also wanted to say that if we do occasionally go out for lunch, sure, I’ll have a burger and order fries with that. I might only eat 10 french fries because it’s all I want, and I usually only eat half a bun, it’s enough to satisfy me. I’m not doing it for dieting purposes. I do consider myself free of the stress eating related to dieting, night eating, and have not binged from the get-go. I’m also older than you (oh drat!) and have a different metabolism. I have learned how to eat so that I have good energy.

I just went back and read that post of hers; I think I’ll read it every day this week.  I think I’m tuning in; I try to.  I often leave food on my plate.  I am going to stop/look/listen every time I use butter and cheese this week.  See if there are substitutions, like can I use cottage cheese with my eggs instead of swiss?  Do I need butter and jam on my toast or will straight jam do the trick?  We’ll see what transpires.

Found a Bible verse the other day:  “You still the hunger of those you cherish…”  ps 17:14 Hmmmmm

Hi annual.  After I had gained and wasn’t gaining anymore, I decided to look for ways to trim the fat. I felt it was time, and I was ready.  So I trimmed and I trimmed.  Then I started craving pleasure foods, so I realized I had trimmed too much. I mean, in the middle of the day I wanted cookies.  And it was Halloween time, so I wanted to raid our treat supply. I was eating lots of fruits and veggies, but whenever I try to get full by just eating those, and the leanest of proteins, it’s the same feeling I get if I try to get full by drinking water alone—full, but still feeling empty!  So I still had adjustments to make.  You have to figure out what works for your body.  I was thinking at the time I could be really strict and eat really low fat but I found out I really need fat in order to avoid craving any pleasure foods, which is what I prefer.  I just don’t keep any sweets in the house but a bag of sugar for putting on unsweetened cereal, and my granola bars. 

You also need to think about how our activity levels vary.  I’m swimming laps for an hour and a half straight, 3-4 days per week.  My body makes sure I eat to keep up with this, so maybe I’m eating more fats and carbs than someone who has a different workout.  So don’t try to match your diet to someone else’s, find what works for you.  Everyone has to do some tinkering.  But if you just got on the right track in November, your body may still need some time before you start tweaking.

I’m finding the things I like now are more of the things I avoided all during my dieting years.  I would look through mouth-watering recipes when I was dieting and say, Nope, can’t make that, it has sour cream in it!  and Nope, can’t make that, it has cheese in it! Or real butter!  And the types of foods I ate all through my dieting years, I find harder to stomach now.  But I realize my tastes just continue to evolve.  I couldn’t eat spinach for a really long time because on most dieting days, that was my main course!  But I can eat it now.  So while I’m eating plenty of fats at the present time, I do think that maybe after eating NT for a while longer, my eating may start resembling Noel’s more.

Swan, when I quit dieting I could not for the life of me eat a salad. For years, no salads. It just meant deprivation. Now I can take them or leave them. I fear no food and when I attend quilt guild potluck, I eat a little bit of everything that looks good, including the casseroles! I’ve just never enjoyed the art form of cooking. I used to have an apron that said “I’d rather quilt than cook” and guess what? that apron was spotless!

I exercise (weight lifting mostly) six days a week for a hour… because I love it, not because I have to.

Oh wow, you’re a quilter, too?  I LOVE quilting!  And I’m not a foodie by any means, but I don’t hate cooking.  Don’t adore it, don’t hate it.

This conversation has been very instructive.  I said before that I felt like NT has been a progressive revelation - apply something, then learn something new and apply it, then figure out something I was doing wrong and stop doing it.  And I can see from your histories that your eating progressed as you went along.  I think the best strategy is to stay tuned in to my body and keep changing the food supply as the desires change, because they really have changed quite a bit and I should look at that as progress.  I may never get to the tree bark level…

Really, you gals have been so helpful in this.  I’m just so grateful.  Someday we’ll all get to heaven and be like, “You’re Swan?  I’ve been waiting for this day!!”  and big hugs all around.  : )

I’m very comfortable in my new jeans, by the way.

Annual,  Someday we’ll design a quilt called “Rocky Road to Naturally Thin.” It can be made of old jeans that don’t fit us anymore!

And we’ll applique a casserole on it!